More Hurricane Katrina: Folklore vs. Fact
Folklore: Hurricane Katrina was the worst natural disaster in the country's history
Fact: Hurricane Katrina is the seventh worst natural disaster in US history.
Folklore: Ray Nagin said on September 5th on the Oprah Show, "They're murdering people in there (the Superdome)." (VIDEO HERE)
Fact: Both sources (Louisiana National Guard and State health department officials) said no one had been murdered inside the stadium.
One victim was found in the Superdome but was believed to have been brought there, and one was found at the Convention Center, he added.
Folklore: Ray Nagin said on September 5th on the Oprah Show, "They're raping people in there (the Superdome)." (see above Oprah-Nagin video clip)
Fact: The vast majority of reported atrocities committed by evacuees — mass murders, rapes and beatings — have turned out to be false, or at least unsupported by any evidence.
Folklore: "There are Babies dying!" cried Nagin... "The children!" screamed Oprah. (see above Oprah-Nagin video clip)
Fact: There are no known babies that died in the Superdome.
Folklore: Babies stuffed in freezers.
Fact: Nope.
Folklore: Katrina cannibalism. "Black hurricane victims in New Orleans have begun eating corpses to survive."
Fact: Nope.
Folklore: 30-40 Bodies stuffed inside a freezer at Convention Center. (Hat Tip Donny Baseball)
Fact: Nope. (Hat Tip Acassa)
Folklore: I've got a report there are bodies stacked in the basement of the Superdome. (FEMA doctor)
Fact: National Guard officials put the body count at the Superdome at six, saying the other four bodies came from the area around the stadium.
Six... Of those, four died of natural causes, one overdosed and another jumped to his death in an apparent suicide.
Of the 841 (885 9-27) recorded hurricane-related deaths in Louisiana, four are identified as gunshot victims, Johannessen said.
Folklore: Mayor Nagin on the Today Show, "It wouldn't be unreasonable to have 10,000..." (VIDEO HERE)
Facts: There have been 885 deaths in Louisiana attributed to Hurricane Katrina:
701 are at the makeshift morgue in St. Gabriel
Parish Coroners:
Ascension -- 5
Assumption -- 2
East Baton Rouge – 72
Iberia – 6
Jefferson – 30
Lafourche -- 2
Livingston -- 5
Plaquemines -- 3
St. Charles – 8
St. Tammany – 7
Tangipahoa -- 26
Terrebonne -- 15
West Baton Rouge – 3
Most of the dead from Katrina have been sent to the makeshift morgue in St. Gabriel, Louisiana a town of 5,500, 15 miles south of Baton Rouge.
Folklore: They all drowned!
Fact: Any death that is determined to have been caused as a result of Hurricane Katrina will be counted as a hurricane-related death. For example, this applies to people who drowned as well as people who required life-support but had it cut off and died as a result when power was lost during the storm.
Folklore: Many foreigners perished (96 British citizens are unaccounted for!)
Fact: Only one foreigner was killed in the hurricane, a British woman.
Folklore: The levee was blown up to destroy the black part of town.
Fact:
Folklore: The federal government was slow to respond.
Fact: "The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."
For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.
Update: (Thursday, 9-29) For more on the Louisiana Hurricane Katrina Deaths, go HERE
Update 2: (10/05/05) Today it was reported that the violent rumors actually slowed the aid process to those suffering in New Orleans. For the recent "Folklore and Fact" GO HERE.
posted by Gateway Pundit at 9/28/2005 03:40:00 AM
62 Comments:
sorry people
"When in trouble or in doubt,
run in circles scream and shout".
This would be even more useful if you could collect the information (widely available on the 'net) comparing response times and volumes to Katrina to those from earlier hurricanes. For example, FEMA response to Andrew was apparently about a day longer than to Katrina. This would lay the lie to the myth that the feds "waited" in order to let poor black folks die.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
The meme factory did a pretty good job with Katrina. Media hit pieces are usually directed at the media's political enemies. This is the first hit piece I can remember where where the target was an entire nation.
can you debunk this one:
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0905/258490.html
Here you go, donny...
"One widely circulated tale, told to The Times-Picayune by a slew of evacuees and two Arkansas National Guardsmen, held that "30 or 40 bodies" were stored in a Convention Center freezer. But a formal Arkansas Guard review of the matter later found that no soldier had actually seen the corpses, and that the information came from rumors in the food line for military, police and rescue workers in front of Harrah's New Orleans Casino, said Edwards, who conducted the review."
Full story here
Thanks, Donny Baseball and Acassa for the links. I posted the information.
So far, every thing is Folkore except that:
a strong hurricane hit just east of New Orleans
the evacuation of citizens was a colossal clusterf*ck caused by mismanagement at the local level
some levees broke
IMHO Everything else you've heard about Katrina is an MSM fraud, misrepresentation, derelect reporting, agenda driven, spin, fake but accurate, stuck on stupid story.
I would like to personnally apologize to the people of New Orleans who stayed behind and weathered Katrina, many of whom are poor and people of color. When ABC, NBC, CBS, NYT, WP, and other mainstream media outlets, all run by white "elites" by the way, tarred you by blowing events out of proportion yet again and reporting that you had quickly resorted to anarchy and roamed in marauding armed gangs wantonly killing and raping while bodies piled up in the Superdome and Convention Center ... well, I guess I believed them.
It's a mistake I won't make again. I'm sorry.
I've given up watching much network news but I do remember seeing at least one network correspondent (I think he was from NBC) reporting live from the Superdome as Katrina hit. I assume other news outlets were represented as well. What happened to those newspeople in the days that followed? Did they stick it out and report events as they unfolded or were they whisked to safety as conditions worsened? (If the latter, I wonder how many poor New Orleaneans they took out with them.) If they had stuck it out, maybe the reporting could have been more factual. I actually am curious if anyone knows.
I suspect that having national news people there actually had the effect of encouraging people to stay when they shouldn't have. After, the networks have dedicated resources to get their people in and out (and to do their makeup and other important stuff).
As for taking anyone out, Hell, Geraldo (and I don't even like him) tried to help a lady in a wheelchair and got ripped by the NYT. Just imagine what they'd have said if he had used Foxnews resources to evacuate someone.
(I can see it now: Dateline: NewOrleans, The New York Times has discovered that FOXNews personality Geraldo Rivera overpowered the crew of a Coast Guard helicopter, killing six of them, as he attempted the staged 'rescue' of several 'tv sympathetic' 'victims' of Hurricane Katrina. When he couldn't get the chopper started, he moved to another that was running, killed it's crew and re-staged the 'rescue' of the 'victims'.)
JorgXMcKie
You are of course correct in what you say, but here is a small tangential point: in describing Katrina as the seventh largest natural disaster you are restricting yourself to disasters tied to storms or earthquakes. Epidemics have been far worse than any of these, as disasters. Thus New Orleans itself had more than 8000 deaths out of a population of roughly 80,000 in a yellow fever epidemic in the summer of 1853. (And diagnosis was pretty easy; the symptoms were: black vomit followed quickly by death.) And the flu epidemic of 1918, it is said, killed more than a million Americans, and many millions worldwide. And, over the years, there were surely many other epidemics that dwarfed Katrina in their death tolls. That being said, if you add in the deaths out of Louisiana to those now recorded you get a figure which rises to 6th on that list.
I've seen at least one show with a hand-wringing panel talking about "national morality" and Katrina. I've seen any number of reports talking about "mistakes and incompetence" from various levels of government.
I have yet to see a show where media has a panel discussing morality, mistakes, and incompetence on the part of media in this situation. However, there is plenty of footage, and we have lots of documentary makers...
It is still amazing that when New Orleans was still underwater Mayor Nagin found time to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame on Oprah.
What a publicity whore.
And the truth laces on its boots.
Another thing that's bothered me about the coverage is the implicatation that since many of those who stayed behind in NOLA were black, then it naturally follows that only whites left. That is the tone of the reportage. If NOLA is roughly 70% black, and 80% of the city's citizens evacuated, doesn't it follow that the vast majority of those with the means and/or foresight to leave town were also black? By extension, if there's a 25-30% poverty rate in NOLA, and a 70% black population, doesn't it stand to reason that most of those who are NOT poor in the city are also black? Why does the MSM report as if all blacks and only blacks are poor? I've always found that sort of...well, racist.
Hmm, your source has one midtske, so by fatalities Katrina should be the eighth worst disaster, though final toll is TBD.
The 1906 Earthquake did not kill 700, but rather closer to 3,000 according to recent revisions. Don't have a quick source handy
"a colossal clusterf*ck"
Oh, precisely! Just like those TVtime whores on the 'congressional committee' I saw raking Brown over the coals last night on C-Span. Shays had a particularly hiLARious quote, 'bout how Congress doesn't spend money fer nuthin', you know. They exPECT a return on the dollar.
But, but, but George Bush hates black people! Please tell me that is still true!
Democrats and their leftist scum saw "Katrina" as the perfect opportunity to slam Bush, his administration, white people, and anything else that might get in their way of the "White House" in 2008.
I never thought I would live to see the day when people of this country stoop so low as to regale at the misfortune of others for no other reason but to sooth their political appetites.
The Democrats should hang their collective heads in shame and ask GOD his forgiveness. OOOppps, sorry. Given their track record, God doesn't exist.
I heard Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity & O'Reilly ranting about the looting and murdering in New Orleans for several days after katrina. To them, blacks = crime, and they jump on any 'story' that supports their beliefs.
To this day they're still passing on lies about school buses (that had no drivers and nowhere to go) and other smarmy stories. What's their excuse?
I heard Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity & O'Reilly ranting about the looting and murdering in New Orleans for several days after katrina. To them, blacks = crime, and they jump on any 'story' that supports their beliefs.
To this day they're still passing on lies about school buses (that had no drivers and nowhere to go) and other smarmy stories. What's their excuse?
What's interesting is if you look at the top 10 natural disasters, the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 had a similar number of fatalities. According to the USGS
the population of SF in 1906 was about 400,000. Several places put the population of NO at 480,000, so the fatality rate is 1.5/1000 for Katrina and 1.75/1000 for the earthquake. The $ damage for SF was more than $400M in 1906 dollars, or about $8.2T in 2005 dollars, or that NO, even by the wildest estimates is still far less damaging. (Of course, there was less to damage in 1906 SF)
Louisiana bought a bunch of buses but did not bother to hire drivers?
Wow...corruption is in Louisiana runs deep, doesn't it?
Anyway, you would think that any local evacuation plan would say, "Hey, we have the buses. We will need drivers. Let's make a plan for that." I guess those heartless Feds choose not to do New Orlean's job.
It's incredible that quite a few of you continie to buy the RoveSpin of "it was the local government at fault", claiming they had no responsibility to step in help CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, while they have been all worried (to the tune of 2B dollars) about those poor repressed Iraqis for the last three years. Please...
To the other anonymous -
Rush and Sean shouldn't get upset with raping and looting?
Maybe if the mainstream media had bothered to fact check these reports and the Mayor of N.O. had done the same, there'd be nothing to get upset about.
I'm not sure though what you think the proper response from Rush and Sean should have been though. Don't say anything about the raping and looting, because someone might interpret it as racial and get upset?
I think your priorities are a bit askew.
What about the rumor that the levies were blownup by the goverment to get the blacks out of the city.
Well, that and the obvious that while most people don't know how to drive a bus, if I have a bus but no driver and there's a Category Five hurricane coming my way... I'll learn. Can't do that if the buses are locked up. That kid who hotwired a bus and drove a bunch of people to Houston wasn't licensed to drive a bus, but it was an emergency and he did what he had to do.
So far, every thing is Folkore except that:
[...]
some levees broke
Actually, that one is folklore too. The levees held up fine, and they were high enough to withstand the Katrina storm surge. What broke was the walls of several canals. They're related in the sense that the failure caused flooding, and levee failure also would have caused flooding if it had happened, but when people say "If only the Army Corps of Engineers had raised the levees higher!"... it's a good idea to do that, but if they had, it wouldn't have stopped this flood. The flood was caused by something else.
"Rove-Spin" Anonymous
Maybe you should read the posts and comments again. The response to Katrina was a day faster than to hurricane Andrew. Rove-Spin? N.Orleans didn't execute it's own evacuation plan. The Mayor went on national television and said there was raping and murdering going on at the Superdome (Maybe he should have called the N. Orleans Police Chief instead?)
The feds are ponying up big money for this, as always happens with these kinds of disasters, so I don't really get your point beside the knee-jerk reaction to a little fact-checking. (The expression "Rove-Spin" is a dead giveaway, don't you know.)
In any case, the feds are responsible for military action and efforts in Iraq, and they are responsible for disaster relief here. Your complaint is merely typical of the need to blame Bush first, rather than figure out why, how, and where people died. It's exactly what someone else said - politics exploiting a tragic disaster. It stinks.
What about the 3 babies that died at the convention center? Joe Scarbourgh was still insisting last night that that happened. His reason? Because the AP said so. Yet the AP only quoted one person who was volenteering at the convention center.
That story of babies dying upset me the most. Now I find out it was probably media hype. Its time we citizens "speak truth to power", which is the MSM.
"Your complaint is merely typical of the need to blame Bush first, rather than figure out why, how, and where people died. It's exactly what someone else said - politics exploiting a tragic disaster. It stinks."
... and Bush is still in office because of the "All 9/11 all the time" theme of the 2004 campaign, claiming that we would be safe from terrorists. That kind of exploitation of tragedy is what's sad. 9/11 has been devalued and abused by the neocons from 9/12 onward.
See the facts emerge here:
On the Levees of New Orleans
The first "fact" (Katrina 7th worst by death toll) is false. The source assumes only 710 fatalities, yet you state there are 885 in Louisiana alone.
As for the federal response, it took more than 96 hours from the time Katrina hit until the National Guard arrived in New Orleans in force. This was approximately 140 hours from the time that the president authorized FEMA to "identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency." Comparing this response to the much-criticized Andrew response kind of makes the point the critics are trying to make. Have we learned nothing since then? Nothing since 9/11?
I'd like to add one folklore/fact entry:
Folklore: State and local officials had the primary responsibility for coordinating the federal response and recovery effort.
Fact:
In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.
Pursuant to HSPD-5, the Secretary of Homeland Security is responsible for coordinating Federal operations within the United States to prepare for, respond to, and recover from terrorist attacks, major disasters, and other emergencies.
State and local officials are not blameless, but let's not let that prevent us from the important task of fixing the National Response Plan and making sure we have leaders, not lawyers, in charge when disaster strikes.
Way to change the subject, Anonymous (the topic-challenged one, I mean).
> And the truth laces on its boots.
That's the problem. The Truth has to lace up its boots before getting out the door. Falsehood wears velcro sneakers.
With the 841 dead now listed, wouldn't that make katrina the 6th worst natural disaster? (the link uses only 710 at the date of the article,)
Just wanted to point that out. It's still not the worst though.
I tell you what's not a myth, the billions being ladled out now, Gale Norton using this to try to drill in protected areas, and the National Marine Fisheries relaxing TEDs on fishing...
To : RoveSpin anonymous
Re : the Federal government's "responsibility"
Obviously you were not paying attention in Civics class. The CONSTITUTION prevents the Federal government from stepping in to help until it is ASKED TO DO SO BY THE GOVERNOR (go check out Posse Commitatus if you're still confused). And Gov. Blanco waited until TUESDAY morning to send that request.
Unless there was insurrection (which there was NOT), the government's hands were tied. Of course, now that the MSM and all of you other idiots have bitched enough, President Bush is looking to do away with Posse Commitatus. Great. Thanks y'all.
Homefront Six,
Do you have a source for your claim that the Governor waited until Tuesday? That is contrary to what I had heard.
Saturday, 2 days prior to the hurricane, the mayor asks President Bush to declare a State of emergency, allowing FEMA to get involved. Later that day, Blanco calls Bush, saying "Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you've got." Bush later assures her that "help is on the way.""
I imagine there were troops there already. But it was on Thursday, that 30,000 Guardsmen are ordered to go there, but many don't arrive till days later.
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html
From Fema:
The Stafford Act (§401) requires that: “All requests
for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State.”
As part of the request, the Governor must take appropriate action under State law and direct execution
of the State’s emergency plan.
As to Mayors:
A mayor or city or county manager, as a jurisdiction’s chief executive, is responsible for the public safety and welfare of the people of that jurisdiction. The Local
Chief Executive Officer:
■ Is responsible for coordinating local resources to address the full spectrum of actions to prevent,
prepare for, respond to, and recover from incidents involving all hazards including terrorism, natural
disasters, accidents, and other contingencies;
■ Dependent upon State and local law, has extraordinary powers to suspend local laws and ordinances, such as to establish a curfew, direct evacuations, and, in coordination with the local
health authority, to order a quarantine;
■ Provides leadership and plays a key role in communicating to the public, and in helping people, businesses, and organizations cope with the consequences of any type of domestic incident within the jurisdiction;
■ Negotiates and enters into mutual aid agreements with other jurisdictions to facilitate resource-sharing; and
■ Requests State and, if necessary, Federal assistance through the Governor of the State when the jurisdiction’s capabilities have been exceeded or exhausted.
Political Teen has the video of Governor Blanco herself saying that she had not requested the national guard.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/09/game-set-match.html
~ IN GOV'T WE TRUST ~
In 1927, a hurricane more severe than Katrina hit New Orleans and caused greater damage.
The amount of aid provided by government?
Absolutely none. (The army did loan New Orleans some tents and camping supplies, but later sued for reimbursement.)
Today government commits 60 billion dollars amid bitter complaints it didn't do more sooner.
What changed?
80 years ago we believed government's duty was to protect "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and our duty to be self-reliant.
Today we expect government to provide "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"; something no government anywhere has ever done successfully long-term.
Nor will ours.
Good Round Up!
Excellent job of collating the facts.
To follow up on the comments on the Stafford Act. There seems to be the underlying assumption that the National Guard can't act until there is a federal disaster declaration.
The Guard within any state has two chains of command and can be brought onto state active duty by state authority. One of the overriding reasons for doing this is that Guard units on state active duty *CAN* perform police functions without violating posse comitatus. And logistically, they are a lot closer to the disaster.
In the 89 quake in SF, the Guard was brought onto state active duty in the very beginning. And the request for federal assistance went out as soon as the ground stopped shaking.
The usual reluctance to bring Guard units on state active duty is budgetary - the state has to pay, at least until there is a federal declaration, at which point there is some level of reimbursement.
John - Operations Officer, 6th Army, Presidio of SF, 1989
Most people that commit crimes are black. Look at the prisons. On an average of most prisons over 70% are black where as only a reported 20% of the nation is black.
folklore: A bloated Elvis Pressley is dead.
fact: Teddy Kennedy is Elvis
Here is another interesting bit of information. I like to call it bad, and unethical contracting as it is a waste of taxpayer dollars that could have been utilized in different and better ways to help people.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9507503/
As to the Federal Government response. Some of the earliest images I saw of the flooding in NOLA was of Coast Guard Choppers picking people off of roofs. the last time I checked the Coast Guard is part of the Federal Government.
Tom
Funny, the ones I heard trumpeting the murder, mayhem and shooting-at-helicopters stories loudest were Hannity and Co.
Awsome post. Thanks for doing your homework for us!
Uhm, Andrew hit in 1992, not 2002. :X
The official investigation into the levee disaster has started - or has it? My post, On the Levees of New Orleans, Update 19 has been updated with news and my recommendations.
Regarding the Stafford Act, I assumed that all it took for the National Guard to be implemented was direction from the Gov. and didn't mean to imply that the President had to delcare a national disaster.
As for the reports of people shooting at helicopters--according to my son, who was in N.O. with the 82nd, that did take place, but not necessarily for the reasons imagined. At least in some cases, people firing in the direction of helicopters in an effort to get their attention--sort of saying "come get me off this roof or else."
Obviously a bad idea, but people can do strange things under duress.
You damn right. About time people stopped bitching and started accepting a little responsibility. Liberals should learn that just because you don't like the president, does'nt mean that everything is his fault.
Is it facts? Answer please.
Bear Myth Buster .. Sounds like your media sources were not actually there nor where they speaking with the evacuees?? Your Myth Buster Comments are highly questionable and suspect to a biased agenda .. what's your agenda. Wha don't you ask resident's of the 9th Ward what Happened?
Honestly I do not know where you get off saying what is fact or fiction, obviously you don't know all the facts, because there where babies that died in the Dome. There was a mother holding her twin babies and they thought the babies were sleep but they were dead! What do you know obviously nothing, because you probably didn't even experience any of this, you’re just a critic like the rest of the world and not doing anything to help!
Cleaned of Spam 9-13-2006
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